HERE’S a look at the 168th Street elevated train platform in Jamaica sometime in the late 1960s or early 1970s. We are probably looking at a fan trip as there are two very different examples of rolling stock in the photo. Elevated trains operated on the Jamaica el until 1977, at which time service was cut back to Queens Boulevard and later the 121st Street stop; the MTA may have decided that the parallel F train running on Hillside Avenue provided sufficient service. What cars are they? Comments are open.
In the late 1960s, there was a plan to extend subway service to southeast Queens. Only a couple of stations in this extension opened, as a ramp was constructed east from 121st Street into a tunnel that terminated at Parsons-Archer. At the same time, E service also entered a new tunnel to Parsons-Archer, with teh two lines meeting at a two-level station. That service began in December 1989, a good 12 years after the east end of the el closed. Of course, these days, 12 years to build three stations is considered fairly speedy.
I never had cause to take the J train all the way to Jamaica with any frequency until I began work on Forgotten NY, so I only rode the line once, in 1968, with my parents on a foray to the Gertz department store where my father found a wall unit for his stereo equipment that he retained until his death in 2003. Thus, I don’t recall the stops at all. Note the wood plank platform as well as the “hooded” incandescent lamp stanchions.
In the rear, note the ad for Sachs New York, otherwise known as Sachs Quality Furniture. The business shouldn’t be confused with the still-existing Saks Fifth Avenue, as Sachs sold furniture exclusively. The chain was founded by Israel Sachs in 1896 in Harlem. The chain expanded to several stores around town, but went bankrupt in 1981, closing its remaining 11 locations, including the one in Jamaica.
Surprisingly the ad is still visible albeit in a much-faded condition. Without getting down to Jamaica to get a photo the best I can do is show you this view from 168th Street south of Jamaica Avenue.
As always, “comment…as you see fit.” I earn a small payment when you click on any ad on the site. Take a look at the new JOBS link in the red toolbar at the top of the page on the desktop version, as I also get a small payment when you view a job via that link.
9/11/23
24 comments
Some useless trivia:
The car on the right is a BMT Standard, which hail from c.1915 to the early 20’s.
Car on the left is a an R27/30 from c. 1957-60.
After 168th St., 160th(?) St. and the Sutphin Blvd stations were closed, the line still ran as far as Queens Blvd as late as 1978, with Queens Blvd being closed sometime not too long after that, and then the line terminating at 121st. St. as it did until the Archer Ave. sewer..err..uh…line was completed.
I applaud you making this pic available. I lived in Brooklyn along this legendary line near Kosciusko St station. Mom took my sister & me to 168th street on many occasion growing up. Whrther it was the bowling alley at Metropolitan Ave of Christmas shopping at 168th st. Timeless memories Ill never forget. I left NY in 85 to joing the Army. Now retired living in Texas. Will be coming home soon for a visit. Hope to make time to come to Jamaica 168 just to reminice on those precious memories. Once again, Thank you for the pic!!!!
And….
The pic is probably from right around 1977, just before the closing of 168th et al, as the use of BMT Standards for fan trips on that line seem to have mainly been a thing in that year, and much before that they typically used R16’s and R4-R9’s on that line in normal revenue service.
It was I was photographing next to whoever took this. Last weekend of service to 168th Street
Awesome! Thanks for the confirmation.
The old timey car on the right looks like from the time when a subway train had a second
guy dressed like a railroad conductor and operated the doors from a platform between the cars.
I seen it from a 1940s issue of the New Yorker.I think the artist was Peter Arno.Wait a second.
They still do got a second guy running the train,right?
Good posting. I remember the Jamaica El very well. Originally its trains carried a #15 route designation on the roll signs, a holdover from the BMT’s original route identification scheme which pre-dated its 1940 NYC takeover and eventual conversion to IND style route letters in the late 1960s. The car on the left is an R27-30, one of a group of 550 cars built between 1959 and 1962 and originally used to replace World War I vintage equipment on former BMT routes in Manhattan, Brooklyn, and Queens. These cars first graced the Jamaica Avenue El around 1967. From 1954-67 a group of R16 cars, similar looking on the outside, but with a combination of transverse and longitudinal seating, were the Jamaica El mainstays. The R27-30s had all seating facing the aisle (longitudinal).
The car on the right is a BMT Standard model, one of hundreds built in the 1915-1925 era. These venerable cars operated on all BMT routes, including the Jamaica El, except on elevated routes that did not connect with newer subways. Beginning in 1955 the Standards were also found on the IND Queens Boulevard line, when a connection between the BMT 60th Street Tunnel and the IND subway was opened in Long Island City, just west (operationally south) of the Queens Plaza station. The last Standards ran in 1969 on the 14th St.-Canarsie Line.
The IND was originally built with the idea of putting the existing BMT and/or IRT out of business, especially where the latter was elevated. Thus, you had two lines about 3 blocks away (Jamaica and Hillside Avenues) from each other in an outer borough — something that never would have happened if there had been a central plan. Similary, the Concourse line was built near the existing Jerome Avenue line, and the Fulton Street line eventually resulted in the closing of the elevated there, with some of the remaining portions being incorporated into the IND.
This posting is primarily for the benefit of the first poster (two postings). To some of us this stuff is not useless trivia. Kevin, thanks for posting the original. Here is some additional stuff that might appeal to other readers.
The R27-30s were new in 1960-61, and totaled 550 cars, all constructed by St. Louis Car Company. The operated on all B Division routes (BMT and IND) in their careers. The last ones operated in passenger service in 1993. Link from http://www.nycsubway.org with more info about the R27-30 fleet:
https://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/R-27_–_R-30_(St._Louis_Car,_1960-1961)
The Jamaica Ave. El was cut back from 168th St. to Queens Blvd. on Sept. 10, 1977. 168th, 160th, and Sutphin were closed and razed afterward, and Queens Blvd. became the last northbound stop. That service lasted until April 15, 1985 when Queens Blvd. and Metropolitan Ave. were closed and service truncated at 121st Street, which later was connected into the Archer Ave. subway on December 11, 1988.
Link from http://www.nycsubway.org with those dates: https://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/BMT_Nassau_Street-Jamaica_Line
Below is link to a 1977 photo showing the temporary terminal at Queens Blvd. used 1977- 1985:
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=1945179935877693&set=gm.3473547969625230&idorvanity=1549243508722362
Ah, Andy- it is useless trivia…but I’ve always loved it….just as I’ve long enjoyed your books on the subject. To me, this history of NYC is best told and most interesting from the perspective of the subway- just as the els provided a great view of the city.
I don’t believe that any wood plank platforms remain. What was the last station to have wood plank platforms?
If I’m not mistaken Park Place on the Franklin Avenue Shuttle had wooden platforms until the late 1990’s.
Two fantrips ran on the Jamaica Ave el with these BMT B types, in April and on the last day of service in 1977.
I heard the main reason the Jamaica Avenue El got demolished was due to residents complaining that it was unsightly and noisy, which lead to the stops that are now on Archer Avenue.
Supposedly, it was the stores and other businesses along Jamaica Avenue that complained the most. By the time Archer Avenue opened many were out of business.
Exactly, Peter. It was the store owners who wanted the el to go- not that the MTA would have demolished it just for that- but the few store owners- virtually all who owned tiny stores, were given a disproportional voice in the media to justify the el’s demolition; and ironically, it’s demolishing killed off what was left of foot traffic on Jamaica Ave, which toppled the already struggling little stores. (There really were virtually no residences on that stretch of Jamaica Ave.)
The date of that photo on top is Apr 30, 1977. It was a fan trip sponsored by the NY Div ERA. I also attended a fan trip sponsored by the NY Div ERA on September 11, 1977.. It was the “Farewell to the Jamaica “el” fan trip. That trip was held one day after the closure of the line to 168th St. Two types of equipment was used. BMT “D” Type “Triplexs” in the early part of the day. Lunch stop at Coney Island and BMT Standard (AB’s) in the late part of the day as the the last train carrying passengers out of 168th St
I grew up taking the J train to Jamaica so my mother could do Christmas shopping (lived in Cypress Hills until 1978) and then four years of high School (Edison). Moved to Long Island right around HS graduation 1978. Alternated between the train and the 56 bus, the train was faster, but the bus dropped me off way closer to my house, as we lived right off Jamaica Ave, and the J train turned down to Fulton street as it went west into Brooklyn and toward the city. I remember Gertz was an upscale dept. store, and Macy’s was not too far from there on a side street. Spent many cold evenings as the sun was setting during winter on the old Arnines, The conductor had exterior door controls on the car ends, and had to step out onto small foot-holds to lean out to see the platform. He spent a lot of time out there while the train was moving, whether is was nice out, raining, snowing, freezing cold…
I also want to thank Kevin for this website, and the inspiration it has given me to pursue my hobby…http://www.acefilmco.com/n-scale-trains.html I have been a fan since the website began.
During the 1970’s I worked every so often at the Welfare Center located down the block from the Sutphin Blvd. stop. The deferred maintenance that the NYC subway system suffered with was very evident on the J line at this stop. You couldn’t see an approaching train, but the entire structure was swaying back and forth as if there was an earthquake. I can only imagine the number of loose, broken, and missing rivets, or cracked and corroded steel parts.
By the way,you can tell when the iron workers have been repairing the structure. The new bolt, rivet or steel part that has been replaced is painted with an orange primer for corrosion protection until the next painting cycle.
The door controls on those BMT were anomalies quite unique to those cars. The conductor operated them from inside the car- but not in a cab, but rather by standing in the middle of the car that was closest to the middle of the train. The controls were mounted on the center post between the two leaves of the middle doors, but were only “live” when the conductor’s key was inserted and turned.
I remember fondly of taking my excursion by A train to ENY and changing to the J train for the last stop 168th st station only to catch the Q42 bus to my final destination to the woman I courted from Brooklyn to Queen.who became my wife..Thanks for the memories of all the sights along the way, some of which still stand and a special homage to my children.
In 1976 , I used to/from commute from my job at Atkins Avenue & Sutter Ave in Brooklyn to my residence on 218 Street in Cambria Heights, Queens. It was a trek. I would take the Q4 from Linden Blvd & 228 Street to 168th & Jamaica Avenue. Then I’d take the J to Eastern Parkway-East New York Station, then transfer to the A. I took the A a few steps to Shepherd Ave and walk a few blocks to Sutter & Atkins. What a daily commute twice daily.
I rode the Q3A bus to the depot every weekday morning to the J train which I rode to East NY station on my way to Rockaway, in the mid-late 1970s.